Comments for ModVegan http://modvegan.com modern vegan living Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:36:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6.6 Comment on Vegan vs. Cruelty-Free Cosmetics by Michelle Hernandez http://modvegan.com/vegan-vs-cruelty-free-cosmetics/#comment-184 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:36:25 +0000 http://modvegan.com/?p=164#comment-184 I always have the same question and I cant seem to find any answers to it. I’m not vegan. I eat meat and products that have animal cux usually all foods have animal and i find it crazy but we all eat it. But…. I’m allergic to cosmetics that are not vegan and I don’t understand how thats possible if what I eat is so different. My face starts to burn when I use make up that is not vegan. I barely found out about it because I tried so many cosmetics on and since nothing changed I searched for different types of make up and I found out about cosmetics that were vegan and I decided to buy some and it worked well with my skin and I felt it more comfortable and soft. FYI I’m allergic to animals too but like I said I dont get whyyyyyyyy if I eat meat and other things that aren’t vegan. Or maybe I am I just dont know about it. Please if anybody has an asnwer please let me know. Thanks 😊

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Comment on Review: “How to Create a Vegan World: A Pragmatic Approach” by Tobias Leenaert by ModVegan http://modvegan.com/tobias-leenaert/#comment-183 Sun, 20 Aug 2017 19:11:05 +0000 http://modvegan.com/?p=1424#comment-183 Hi Cameron! Thanks for stopping by. I’ll do my best to respond to your comments in the order they were presented.

– I may have confused Tobias involvement in animal rights groups with his being vegan for that whole time.
– From what he said in the book (particularly regarding dissatisfaction with other animal rights groups), I assumed he had been working in the US for a major organization, such as PETA or Mercy for Animals. Since you are more familiar with Tobias than I am, do you know of any other organizations he’s worked for besides his own?
– Pro-Veg is described as pro-vegan in the book, although given the book’s relaxed attitude towards such labels, it’s possible that it is more broadly vegetarian.

– I believe it’s inaccurate to state the book is “entirely about changing veganism to encourage and accept the rights violations of other animals.” The book is primarily about “How to Create a Vegan World”, although some vegans may consider Tobias’ strategy an attempt to persuade vegans to water down veganism.

– Although the Faunalytics survey gives us some data, the idea that “people who go vegan have trouble staying vegan” is borne out by experience. This is something Tom Regan bemoaned frequently, and having “backslidden” myself (though I think I was more of one of Tobias’ 99% vegans) after University, I can confirm that I personally know a number of ex-vegans irl.

_ I agree re: abolitionist vegans, although they obviously believe they are the “one true movement.”

– I also agree that “controversial doesn’t necessarily equate to positive.”

– Re: “effective advocacy” – the reason I advocate for a number of approaches is exactly for the reason you state: we can’t be effective without knowing our audience, and every audience is different.

– “Marketing tells us that the average consumer needs 12 – 15 exposures to the same message (sometimes from different sources), before they are open to ‘hearing it’. Haven’t you ever noticed why ads are repeated soooo often?” – This is very true, it’s precisely the reason I think we should encourage people to share veganism everywhere in their own way, as long as they are committed to non-violence.

– Re: Transgressions. I grew up in a (very) conservative Christian family, and there was a great deal of emphasis on “apostacy” and people who had “fallen away” or “weren’t real Christians.” I find that vegans tend to use a very similar vocabulary to religious radicals. And unfortunately, this is not limited to the abolitionist puritans.

– Re: being 100% vegan – I’d be interested in hearing you expand on the idea that veganism is not an “all or nothing” situation.

– “I think that if you call yourself vegan, then you should be able to be held accountable for your actions if you are doing something that ‘isn’t vegan”.” Again, my concern with this is that we can easily end up in radicalism territory, where we spend more time witch hunting than doing anything positive. That’s why I very strongly believe we should share a vegan message (I’m not keen on the reducetarian message, as I don’t think it’s appropriate for vegans) and keep the definition of veganism clear. Let people know what veganism is (clearly) and leave their personal conduct to their own conscience, unless it is a gross transgression – such as a popular vegan YouTuber buying $700 non-vegan shoes and then tagging them all over social media so she can receive a commission when other people buy them.

Re: Utilitarianism – I tend to come at things from a moderate utilitarian perspective myself, as I think many pragmatic people do (if we want to get technical about it, I lean towards negative utilitarianism, which is somewhat different, though I’d never say I was purely utilitarian). I think if we are allowing “all the reasons” for veganism, we have to include people who may not share the belief in moral rights for other animals (or even other people, as in the case of Singer).

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Comment on Review: “How to Create a Vegan World: A Pragmatic Approach” by Tobias Leenaert by Cameron http://modvegan.com/tobias-leenaert/#comment-182 Sun, 20 Aug 2017 09:57:20 +0000 http://modvegan.com/?p=1424#comment-182 Oh boy!!

Where do I begin?

My comment is in point form, and follows from what you were saying in your video, and I wanted to get this done before my head hits the pillow…

Tobias has been “vegan” for almost 20 years, not over 20 years.

I don’t think he has worked for or been involved in any animal rights groups.

Pro-Veg is a pro vegetarian group, not pro-vegan group. Tobias founded it with the another anti-vegan ‘professional’ Sebastian Joy.

The book has very little to pragmatism, or ethics and is entirely about changing veganism to encourage and accept the rights violations of other animals.

We don’t “know” that many of the people who go vegan, have trouble staying vegan. That information came from a Faunalytics ‘survey’ that combined vegetarians with vegans.

The ‘abolitionist vegans’ that are lead by Gary Francione are part of a counter movement, and do not consider themselves part of any movement other than their own.

Controversial doesn’t necessarily equate to positive.

“effective advocacy” is a myth, without knowing who your audience is, how can you measure the ‘effectiveness’ of your message?

Marketing tells us that the average consumer needs 12 – 15 exposures to the same message (sometimes from different sources), before they are open to ‘hearing it’. Haven’t you ever noticed why ads are repeated soooo often?

The “any reason for going vegan” is the foot in the door approach, and is accepted by all the vegan educators that I am aware of.

When you say “100% vegan”, you are further the anti-vegan view that veganism is an “all or nothing” situation, and that we are only interested in ‘purity’.

Interesting that you talk about transgressions.

I think that if you call yourself vegan, then you should be able to be held accountable for your actions if you are doing something that ‘isn’t vegan”.

From my perspective, this isn’t so much about calling people out, as it about those vegans who come after us.

Remember, everything that Tobias writes and talks about is from the utilitarian perspective.

Despite what he claims, he actually rejects and dismisses the concept of moral rights for other animals.

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Comment on ModVegan’s Guide to Vegan Investing by ModVegan http://modvegan.com/vegan-investing/#comment-181 Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:02:04 +0000 http://modvegan.com/?p=1267#comment-181 I suppose it would depend on what you want. If someone does wish to do something like this, the easiest way would be planned giving to an animal charity. If they wanted to have the greatest impact (and were great investors) they would carefully invest and leave the money to a charity when they were gone, since the power of compounding would result in a greater contribution.

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